From what I can tell on the video, there’s a few nice pieces of UI functionality started… But it looks like the vast majority of what was envisioned in Elements is not ready. At the very minimum not stable enough to be shown in a video demo.
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Stuff that AT LEAST should have made it to Classic (anything after version 8.9.3) imo. And… they have a post about their new…. icon!! (Though reading about the process compares dead pale to watching the Abstract video with Ian Spalter).
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There is a demo video now available. https://youtu.be/VZJ_Nv9QuEs
What I didn’t understand until today is stacks developers who agree to develop Elements, those stacks can be automatically converted to Elements.
This means the foundation underpinning Elements has to be built upon Yourhead Software’s Stacks plug-in.
How is this not theft?
Seems to me RMS should at least change their name, as the concept for Windows OS was the original Macintosh OS, an original; thus RealMacSoftware cannot be made from stealing somebody else’s (@Isaiah)'s ideas.
Otherwise it’s not Real Mac Software.
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This has been the problem all along.
I had no issues with RM building elements, tailwind is good with strong possibilities.
However they decided to also reverse engineer Stacks and recompile them into their own language. This is the reason the Rapidweaver community has blown up.
Who knows what will happen from the fragments. Many have jumped ship to other apps. Some are hoping for the best from one or the other.
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Just my two cents on the reverse engineering topic. To be unbiased one has to see, that both RMS and Isaiah have to do reverse engineering. RMS to build the elements part to be compatible with Stacks. Isaiah the RW Themes engine to make StacksPro work standalone. In the end both parties need functioning software that supports both Themes and Stacks (Elements = recompiled Stacks). So I would recommend to calm down on topics like theft of intellectual property. I personally feel sadness, that both couldn’t find a joint solution und at the same time understand both, why they made their moves. RMS needed to do something about RW, it was more and more an app that depends on the 3rd party plugin Stacks. Isaiah was forced by RMS announcement to drop plugin support for Stacks. The market for RMS/Stacks is rather small and the fragmentation that will happen now, doesn’t help.
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It’s a clear defined action by one party and a reaction by another one.
Exactly. It’s always about the how.
I don’t comment on that one…
Whatever you interpret there:
Building a “competitive product” is one thing.
“Reverse engineer” a partners product and make it obsolete by copying its functionality is something different.
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Not to throw oil on the fire here, but Apple has done similar stuff. “To be Sherlocked” literally means having your app be copied by Apple and given away freely with macOS so that your product no longer has a reason to exist.
Backstory:
Watson was a popular third party extension to macOS when it was just released. It was a locally running search engine for the web and on your local machine (before the advent of Spotlight Search).
Apple recognised the popularity of the app and released a competitor to Watson. They, however, not only copied Watson’s functionality, but also the look and feel of the app. And for good measure named it “Sherlock” as an obvious jab at the “Watson” name.
They did all this without warning or approval of the makers of Watson. As Sherlock came for free with macOS starting with macOS X 10.2, Watson was obsolete and it was gone soon after.
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This has never been stated that this will happen. I do not think this will be the case, although I may be wrong. Isaiah has morals and will not do unto other that has been done to him. Also, the RW theme API is not good. It’s nowhere close to as powerful and easy to use as the Stacks API. Why do you think I have never made a theme before.
Nice find. There was a side project. However, it was not a competitor to RapidWeaver. It’s safe to say that side project has ceased and Stacks Pro is now the only project.
Still does not make it right.
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Hi Joe
If the Theme engine of RW isn’t somehow duplicated in StacksPro, how will the transition function for existing projects? Even all the frameworks are using themes as their basis (Foundation 1 & 6, Foundry 1-3, Source, Platform) and even your E-Mail and Portal stacks.
Because they’re all built on the Stacks engine. The engine talks with RW API. So no RW, no problem.
Yes. It was a standalone app. To my knowledge, it was an app for Isaiah alone to test Stacks in it’s own app environment. Developing a plugin for an app can be more difficult to debug things when the plugin is running inside of another app. Having the Stacks plugin running as it’s own app made for easier debugging since the Stacks code could be isolated. It also allows Isaiah to test new frameworks and features that Apple has shipped that maybe RW has not yet implemented.
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Let me preface this with the fact that I do not have Stacks Pro and what I am about to say is an educated assumption from me. Things may change…
For all of the Stacks based frameworks, the developers will simply create a Stacks Pro version of their theme. When you migrate your project to Stacks Pro, you will simply select the proper theme. I will have ported my themes to Stacks Pro well before launch.
I do have plans to start developing more traditional based themes for Stacks Pro as well.
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There was a post on the next-to-last RapidWeaver Forum where a Stacks user couldn’t get their text to show up correctly in the text stack that shipped with Stacks so it wasn’t a 3rd party stack (as I recall), and the text wouldn’t render correctly so @Isaiah was trying to resolve it, but what @Isaiah couldn’t figure out was the how and the why, and then some guy named Tom from RMS, and I want to say Tom Bradley (because his profile picture somewhat resembled Quarterback Tom Brady), and Tom gave this curt response that RMS had changed the RW Plug-In API, but RMS hadn’t notified any Plug-In developers (notably @Isaiah, as he was about the only Plug-In developer still around after having bought LogHound’s Plug-Ins).
Tom just made this smart ass, curt declaration that kind of had a FY tone to it to @Isaiah.
I think that was when the wheels were coming off at RMS, just complete and total disrespect to @Isaiah. Zero Plug-Ins work anymore except Stacks, and now they’re stealing it.
(I’m going to reference the Bible here since the creator of Stacks (@Isaiah) is named for an Old Testament book which predicts the crucifixion of Jesus 800 years before it occurred. See Isaiah 53. And when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in the 1950s, the first book found was the Book of Isaiah – so Isaiah is important.)
“Thou shalt not steal,” says our Creator at Exodus 20:15, and if you look at the rest of the 10 Commandments they are primarily about not taking things that belong to someone else. Don’t take my name. Do not take another man’s wife. Do not take away the Sabbath day. Do not take another person’s life. Do not take away the truth.
And then there’s Do not covet, and here we are.
This is so true.
Just watch the tutorial videos Isaiah made when he released Stacks 5.
Here you’ll see who @Isaiah really is.
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Did I miss something here?
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RM is using Tailwind as the CSS for Elements.
It is what it now is.
Long term users are going to need to make a decision and this may well depend on which stacks they’re using and what platform they’ll support. Some stacks developers are going to move to Elements (Elixirgraphics) others will move to Stacks Pro (Weaverspace). Some may well develop both.
Probably the only certain thing is the RW Classic’s days are numbered.
Elements has received a lot of buzz on the forum. Stacks Pro is going to need to be far more communicative than it currently is. If Elements ships and Stacks Pro has made no appearance I can see many jumping to Elements as it’s available.
Stacks Pro also needs an alternative to Discord.
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Agreed. Just common sense.
Also agree!
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Because you need to comment on the Elements thread in order to get into the “Club”. Self made buzz…
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Yet more RMS dishonesty.