I do not have anything then the dev-beta from April, that we all have, been testing my stacks and without any issue, does not require me to change anything. Nothing stinks here.
And youāve also seen Foundry working with no adaptation required?
Mary had a little lamb.
The first entry in the Stacks App FAQ. Remember now that the app used to be called Stacks 5. Itās now Stacks Pro.
Will all of my 3rd party stacks open in the Stacks 5 app?
Yes. Every one.
Stacks 5 has the same Stacks engine at its core that you've been using for years. Stacks 5 will have full support for every 3rd party stack and even custom stacks you've created using our Stacks API.
The currently released Stacks Pro beta 10 allowed for all stacks developers to access the new theme API. A lot of the app was locked down. All of this was in Isaiahās talk at my summit. Adam was there at the summit (he even participated in a developer panel) and watched the same talk that all of the other developers watched. I had zero knowledge of what Isaiah released that day. I saw and got access to it the same time as any other dev. Any developer that was not able to attend got full access to the beta and to the video about it.
I have seen the Foundry 3 theme. There is almost nothing to it. All of the logic and libraries get loaded in the Control Center stack. This is great because it means that as long as Stacks Pro does have backwards support for all existing stacks, then the base Stacks Pro theme should be all that Foundry users will need. I know this because I have spent the time to thoroughly analyze the existing Stacks Pro beta and the sample themes that are included with it.
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Again. Youāve seen Foundry working with Stacks Pro? I assume you have based on your previous comment.
So why would Adam say it didnāt work?
No. I have not seen it work. But it was not expected to function inside of the existing beta release. Foundation does not work in the existing beta version either.
However, the next beta release that is expected soon. In this release existing stacks are expected to work. So be on the look out if you are willing to test out, you can report any bugs to Isaiah and it can be fixed in the app.
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To whom it may concern. Please stick to the forum rules:
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Ok. Itās just when you said it works, I assumed uou knew that. Whereas, you just assume itāll work with the next version. Thanks for the clarity.
I saw that. I respect that. I am not doing a thing with Foundry. Stacks plugin and the Stacks Pro app are the same platform. We have known for over 2 years now that all existing stacks will work in Stacks Pro.
No one has said that any modification to Foundry will ever be made. I can fully agree that is not acceptable and would not like that to happen with my intellectual property either.
The only thing that I have said is that I want to continue to support Foundry users. I want to ensure that they have a place to get help with Foundry and transition to Stacks Pro. I will do that regardless if they move to Foundation, some other framework or keep on using Foundry. I am not sure how that can be controversial.
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Thereās also this quote (from this post a while ago):
So where does that leave Foundry, and what do I recommend to you, the Foundry user?
Foundry is definitely going to be available for Stacks Pro. It is business as usual there as I donāt have to rebuild Foundry completely.
If this promise is no longer the case, heās given us 6 weeks notice to buy and learn something new (thatās not a lot of time and potentially a lot of expense). I get not wanting to people to co-opt your intellectual property, but having other developers offer to bug fix your theme so users arent stranded shouldnāt be taken as pure unadulterated slime.
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Iām glad you posted this. A lot of us Foundry users were there from versions 1 to 3 and completely rebuilt our websites from scratch when Foundry 3 was released.
I upgraded each time straight away not because I needed the extra features but because I wanted to support the developer & product.
I described the 6 week notice in another thread as being āabruptā which is probably the polite way of putting it.
Iāve moved on now with Source but itās a sad end.
websites created with foundry 1-3 are still working after 6 weeks.
it only means that there will be no further development of foundry.
for new projects you might want to look for a new stacks framework or another website builder
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Even more than this: Business owners, software developers with a large user base have an obligation that their products will also work after they quit. They owe this to their users, their customers.
Just saying āhey, Iāll be not here any more, take care of yourselfā, without making sure their users didnāt spend their money and time useless, isnāt sustainable, to put it nicely.
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Thatās a bit harsh. Itās easy to make such bold statements but life sometimes takes a turn and you have to do what right for you and your family - itās only a web design product! I bought all of Adamās Foundry products and donāt expect him to support them if he is closing the business and wants to make a clean break. I wish him all the best for the future and will just move onto something else.
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There are maybe hundreds of users using this product. There maybe thousands of websites build with this product. There are other businesses (web designers) depending on this product. Further more, there might be even more businesses depending on a functional website.
Maybe you donāt see the implications. Migrating takes time and money. All above mentioned parties are affected of this. Weāre talking about millions of dollars here.
Someone else could have done this.
There is the financial Achilles heal, a reverse pyramid if you like for a developer! One developer sells one product to one person that creates 10ās or 100ās of websites. They make multiple amounts of money but the developer only sells the product once, is expected to support it in its entirety, and stay with that product for years.
If your business is dependant on another product to survive then that is a weakness of your business planning.
Aside from all that, this community circling around Adam and his personal decisions is like sharks in the water is disingenuous.
Again, I am talking about others supporting such a product for its existing users. I am not talking about the original creator himself. A business owner should make sure before quitting this is secured. I am not talking about anyone in special, I am talking of all software developers.
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Without escrow, there is no guarantee of continuity for users if the software developer goes out of business. Developers relying on a specific product must ensure that an escrow agreement is in place to secure their operations. This ensures they are not entirely dependent on the longevity of a single software solution, providing access to the source code if needed to maintain and update the software independently. I wonder how many dev in our universe does that?
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It seems to me that this situation highlights the inherent risks of relying too heavily on third-party developers, especially those who are solo operators. While these individuals often create valuable tools, itās important to recognize the potential vulnerabilities that come with depending on a single point of failure. This is a reminder for all of us as website developersāhow many of us have contingency plans in place to ensure continuity for our clients if something unexpected happens to us?
That said, I believe any developer is within their rights to move on from their business, and no one can be expected to provide support forever. However, I also think thereās an opportunity to leave a lasting positive legacy by ensuring that the product remains usable, whether through a sale, open-sourcing, or another type of transition plan that helps protect the users who rely on it.
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I understand this, from the point of view of intellectual property rights, but from a āreal worldā perspective it seems unnecessarily harsh on the users who had actually provided his business with all its income.
Stacks built on HTML, CSS and (vanilla) JavaScript will continue to function for years. Itās hard to see how emerging web standards will ever break what went before (with the obvious exception of proprietary modifications). PHP and JavaScript frameworks are a different matter (and weāve seen this with JQuery). But itās interesting to note how users have even kept PHP applications like Vanilla alive, when the developers have ceased work on them (a version of Vanilla had, of course, been put into the public domain). It reminds me of the enterprise and ingenuity that can be seen in developing countries, keeping old engines and equipment working.
Itās a developerās right ā legally ā to close their product range down and, while not developing it, refuse to let anyone else take it over. It seems to me a more generous and respectful attitude to users to put oneās ones work into the public domain when one no longer has a commercial interest in it, and let them take it over. Itās not difficult to modify stacks (even the encrypted portions, considering that every interface element is referenced in the unencrypted HTML, CSS and PHP files). And this keeps a community going.
Iām happy to see Joe offering a generous deal to Foundry users (although Foundry will continue to work fine for years to come). But the good times are not coming back, even if Stacks Pro comes to ship. Dan has committed to the future of RW Classic, and deserves our gratitude for this ā even if that future just means making it compatible with future MacOSes. However Stacks is never going to ātake offā now ā itās going to be a niche product for a small but interesting niche (and hopefully provide an adequate revenue for Isaiah). And itās its going to be āmend and make-doā from here on.
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